the delphic expanse

(1x01 & 02) And so it begins: Broken Bow 1 & 2!

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Re: And so it begins: Broken Bow 1 & 2!

Postby EntAllat » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:50 pm

Well, that was a hell of a lot of fun! Thank you again to - was it Entkayjay who recommended we do this? I can't wait for next week.

I actually took notes while I was watching, since I'm looking at each episode for tidbits that I've forgotten that could be used in a fic later to round out the character's backgrounds. I found several. For example, Jon-as-a-boy mentions a kid in class named "Billy Cook" who's opinion he seems to regard as valid until Archer Sr. counters that. Another was when Trip stated that he'd "only been to one inhabited planet besides Earth. Nothing there but dust-dwelling ticks." I'd remembered that Travis had been to Trillus Prime, but not that bit about Trip. I also didn't realize that we saw Trip's intense reaction to insects this early on. I found a few other bits worth exploring in detail in fic, but I mention that near the end of this post. And while it wasn't something I'd forgotten, it was nice to watch Malcolm and Travis's friendship here a little more closely.

Am I the only person who constantly saw the blooper reels every time one of the related scenes came up? As soon as Archer started for the breadsticks to munch I was cracking up, because all I could see was the blooper reel and how much trouble Bakula had with those darn things. That and the the scene where Trip and T'Pol walk into sickbay to give Archer an update. Blalock had such trouble with the word 'incapacitated' though she stayed in character and Trinneer just turned around and cracked up.

Also ... Porthos! I swear, that pooch was half the reason why I loved the show at first sight. Loved, loved, loved Porthos pacing along with Archer in that one scene and how Archer kept stopping the recording to talk to the dog as if Porthos could answer the question in another scene.

Other small things:
  • I recognize her now, but didn't when I first saw the show - it's Lady Heather as Sarin!
  • I'm disappointed that we never see Klaang again.
  • One word: Decon!
  • Jeepers. "Pon for miraan" and near catfight between Hoshi and T'Pol. That made a later scene when T'Pol said "Shaya tonat" to Hoshi with a gentle expression all that much nicer.
  • I was extremely pleased to see the tiny inspection vehicle, since they're about to be featured in one of the Twitter group's upcoming stories. :D I was checking it out with that in mind.
  • Loved Archer's two-fisted shooting and the moment when Trip and Malcolm rescue him after he's been shot and pull him into the shuttle!
  • Reed and anything related to weapons and explosives. 'Nuff said.
  • Nice shooting with the grappler hooks, Malcolm!

LOL moments:
  • "Shut up!!"
  • Ominous music for a closing shot on T'Pol!?! Seriously, did anyone see that?
  • "You tell 'em big guy."
  • Archer's look and patting himself after being transported for the first time. PRICELESS.
  • Why do the younger Klingons always remind me of a Harley Davidson biker gang?
  • "Grandma taught me never to judge a species by their eating habits." Tell that to the Kreetassans in Vox Sola.

With my TnT lenses on:
There's great fodder here for all preferred 'ships, particularly A/R, A/S and A/T. (Hm. There's a theme there.) I looked for TnT moments besides the decon scene. My favorite is on Rigel, when Trip's encountering strange behavior from aliens. At first he's concerned with the sounds of what might be a damsel-in-distress behind closed doors, and then later about the mother and child. T'Pol doesn't get as terse and argumentative with him as she's been up until this point, and instead just firmly steers him away from the first and then more gently turns the second into a "teaching moment". She even has a more gentle expression when she's reminding him about preconceptions. Since T'Pol is the odd-woman-out who has to fit with the rest of the crew by the end of the pilot, there are turning point moment when T'Pol begins to like/respect the various Human crewmembers: first Malcolm, then Travis, then Hoshi and finally Archer. I think this moment was when she connected with Trip.

Which reminds me, I always thought that Trip saw the biggest growth and change in character throughout the series, but I take that back now. T'Pol, of course, grows and changes a lot too, but the pilot makes it even more obvious how much the rest change too. Phlox becomes more serious, Archer seems to become far more confident in his own leadership role, Hoshi certainly becomes more brave under pressure and Malcolm gets a bit darker. To me, only Travis seems to retain essentially the same personality he showed here.

The downsides:
  • I never really loved the Temporal Cold War plot. The Suliban were cool and I loved the idea that they'd been genetically altered but ordinarily were no more advanced than Humans. But the rest of the temporal stuff just loses me every time and I'm not sure why. It's a cool idea, someone from the future is trying to alter the past, and a decent mechanism by which to explain any inconsistencies between this show and TOS, TNG, etc. (I.e. even if Bad Guy was defeated, he had some effect and that explains the discrepancies.) But even now, after having watched the episode four times I couldn't repeat back to you that part of the plot like I can other episodes. It just doesn't stay with me.
  • A bit of technobabble: JB did well with it, methinks. Still, I'm glad Enterprise didn't suffer from as much obvious technobabble as other did. It feels more like TOS, where that sort of stuff was kept to a minimum (compared to say, TNG.)
  • I think I mentioned in the chat that the first time I heard that theme song I was shocked beyond all belief; I thought it was all kinds of wrong for a Trek show. It took me a while to get used to it, and now I love it. I thought it was especially funny that someone (I don't remember who) mentioned right after me in the chat that they had the opposite reaction!

And finally:
I know Enterprise didn't get the reception I think it deserved from Trek fans when it first came out. I can see now why some people who were fond of the Tuvok and TNG-style of 23rd century Vulcan would have been immediately turned off by the show, given the characterizations present here. Only the background extra Vulcans were that blank; Soval, T'Pol and Tos were considerably more animated than that. And I can understand the initial arguement that, since we hadn't seen the cultural changes on Vulcan in the fourth season yet, it was just too out of character for them. But watching this episode again, while I might understand it - I just don't agree with that assessment. I'm an anthropologist by training, and I resist the idea that you can define an entire culture by singular individuals and their personalities, flaws or virtues. I thought the variety of Vulcan personalities here represented IDIC and a depth and breadth to Vulcan culture beautifully. We know that Spock strove hard to meet a nearly impossible ideal in his father's culture because, being a half-and-half, he was constantly judged poorly by many from that culture. From the movies we also already knew there were supposed to be Vulcans that didn't follow the ways of Surak and that Vulcans actually have emotions, they just repress them in favor of logic. Surely there would be those that tried to live up to that and failed to varying degrees and there would be those that gave lip service to it all. It happens in any culture.

Since I was looking for stuff to explore in fic, this was the biggie: the characterizations of the Vulcans and T'Pol in particular made me wonder why T'Pol appeared to have a chip on her shoulder with the Humans, rather than with her Vulcan colleagues. Given what we know now that T'Pol was not the best at keeping her emotions concealed (or so she was judged by other Vulcans) even before her encounter with Trellium etc. and that her relationship with her Mother had it's complications, etc. T'Pol seems to try so hard to try to be distant, disproving and contemptuous here but it falls apart rather quickly. We quickly see flickers of respect, gratitude and gentleness. Later we learn that T'Pol was, in fact, very fascinated with alien cultures and particularly drawn to some things Human (like the jazz club). So what might she be thinking when she's given this assignment? Why did she have this initial interaction with the Human crew? Was this assignment a punishment or humiliation of some sort via someone she worked with in the Ministry? Was she seeing herself reflected in the Humans and trying hard to be a proper Vulcan? Great fic fodder!

Last but not least, I loved all the smiles around the Bridge when they got their orders to carry on. Great way to start out.
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Re: And so it begins: Broken Bow 1 & 2!

Postby EntAllat » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:18 pm


entkayjay wrote:I too like the "real person" aspect of not just Hoshi but most of the entire crew. I like the portrayal of these first steps into space exploration. We weren't always on top of our game and knowing how to respond to the unknown. We weren't all brave (Hoshi), knowledgeable (Jon), understanding of other cultures (Trip), as technologically ready as we needed to be (Malcolm and his constant improvement of weapons as-they-went). We were human, but that didn't stop us. That's my main takeaway from all of Star Trek. So What, We'll Do It Anyway(tm). :mrgreen:



DITTO.

This is what drew me to write fanfic for the show. It's not necessarily that I wanted to fix anything or write about a particular ship, but that I simply thought I could write these characters since they were so real with flaws I could identify with, working in ways that seemed fairly familiar. It helped too that the construction of the ship, the jumpsuits, the technology and the politics also felt a little closer to modern-day NASA as well, which appealed to me.
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Re: And so it begins: Broken Bow 1 & 2!

Postby Kathy Rose » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:20 pm


EntAllat wrote:Am I the only person who constantly saw the blooper reels every time one of the related scenes came up?



Nope. I was thinking that too! Especially the breadsticks scene. :lol:

EntAllat wrote:I recognize her now, but didn't when I first saw the show - it's Lady Heather as Sarin!



That's who that was! I recognized her, but couldn't place where I'd seen the actress before!
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Re: And so it begins: Broken Bow 1 & 2!

Postby Brandyjane » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:25 pm

The Good (I'll try not to repeat what's previously been said unless it's something I really, really love):
- Klang and the farmer in the cornfield. It's such a cliche, but I love it! I especially like the farmer's shotgun.
- I love the sense of wonder in "Broken Bow." The first shot of Enterprise in spacedock is amazing. Cochrane's speech sometimes almost brings tears to my eyes, and I'm not a crier. The transporter is new and a little scary. Things are dangerous!
- Travis might be young, but he's presented as someone who's competent.
- Hoshi and Archer in Brazil. I am convinced there's some history between those two, even if nothing too shocking ever happened between them.
- T'Pol refusing to shake Trip's hand. His expression is priceless.
- Trip scratching the paint on the ship during the inspection.
- Archer's reaction when Sarin transforms. "That's never happened before." :lol:
- Archer's reaction when he realizes he's been transported is one of my all-time favorite things in any Trek episode.
- Baseball caps!
- Phlox's creepy smile and the introduction to his weird menagerie.
- Trip actually seems nervous piloting the Suliban craft, and Hoshi is scared of a lot of stuff. That's realistic!
- Decon. Wow! I could watch that scene over and over.

The Bad:
- Decon. It set the wrong tone for a lot of viewers. My husband has no interest in Ent, calling it "The Trek with too much time travel and all the people in their underwear." I would have liked a similar scene a little later in the series, but with a more logical reason why they have to get nekkid and rub gel on each other.
- Soval raising his voice. I'm okay with slightly different Vulcans than we were used to, but I really don't like Soval yelling here.
- I didn't like the way Archer swaggers into Starfleet Medical for the first time. I liked the leather jacket on his shoulder, but something about the look on his face and his body language when he entered the room just rubbed me the wrong way.
- Temporal Cold War - I wish it had just been Romulans stirring up trouble.
- Archer trusted T'Pol too soon. Yes, she had proven trustworthy, but as many noted before me, it took away some of the potential drama. After this, every time Archer yells at her, it just makes him seem like a jerk since he's the one who asked her to stay.

Regarding Trip accompanying Archer into the Helix, I agree that Archer probably made the right decision to (1) leave the most capable pilot in command of the ship, and (2) take someone with him who he knows he can work with and trust. What I don't get is why Trip was the one to pilot the craft. Wasn't Jon supposed to have been a test pilot?

EntAllat wrote:I looked for TnT moments besides the decon scene. My favorite is on Rigel, when Trip's encountering strange behavior from aliens. At first he's concerned with the sounds of what might be a damsel-in-distress behind closed doors, and then later about the mother and child. T'Pol doesn't get as terse and argumentative with him as she's been up until this point, and instead just firmly steers him away from the first and then more gently turns the second into a "teaching moment". She even has a more gentle expression when she's reminding him about preconceptions.



I totally saw this! In fact, I incorporated this a little bit into the back story I'm giving T'Pol in a story I'm working on now. In my story, T'Pol's father is Velek, the Vulcan biology teacher that Trip mentions he had in "Strange New World." One reason I did that was because of moments like the one you mention above where T'Pol acts as a sort of teacher to the crew. It just struck me that maybe she came by it naturally, from her father.
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Re: And so it begins: Broken Bow 1 & 2!

Postby Kathy Rose » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:44 pm


Brandyjane wrote:Regarding Trip accompanying Archer into the Helix, I agree that Archer probably made the right decision to (1) leave the most capable pilot in command of the ship, and (2) take someone with him who he knows he can work with and trust. What I don't get is why Trip was the one to pilot the craft. Wasn't Jon supposed to have been a test pilot?



Yes, but I'm not sure that was known by viewers until later in the series. I figure he probably wanted both people to be able to pilot, in case one of them got hurt or killed or left behind, as was the case.

I forgot to comment on this in my last post:

EntAllat wrote:...the characterizations of the Vulcans and T'Pol in particular made me wonder why T'Pol appeared to have a chip on her shoulder with the Humans, rather than with her Vulcan colleagues. Given what we know now that T'Pol was not the best at keeping her emotions concealed (or so she was judged by other Vulcans) even before her encounter with Trellium etc. and that her relationship with her Mother had it's complications, etc. T'Pol seems to try so hard to try to be distant, disproving and contemptuous here but it falls apart rather quickly. We quickly see flickers of respect, gratitude and gentleness. Later we learn that T'Pol was, in fact, very fascinated with alien cultures and particularly drawn to some things Human (like the jazz club). So what might she be thinking when she's given this assignment? Why did she have this initial interaction with the Human crew? Was this assignment a punishment or humiliation of some sort via someone she worked with in the Ministry? Was she seeing herself reflected in the Humans and trying hard to be a proper Vulcan? Great fic fodder!



I think she was under a lot of pressure not to screw up. Soval was her boss and mentor in the diplomatic corps, and she may have been taking her cue from him in how to interact with humans. I don't think it was a punishment assignment as much as it was probably something Soval thought she could do well at.
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Re: And so it begins: Broken Bow 1 & 2!

Postby tish » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:35 pm

FINALLY found this thread!!! Looked yesterday evening and early today. Still finding my way around the Expanse!

My Broken Bow Critique

I do not need to repeat thoughts already given that I also found resonance with, so these are some of my other odd moments of notice!

As a Trip Tucker fan, I am happy this character got the first lines of the seven main characters.

Funny the way Archer goes to make Phlox feel welcome, then gets weird-ed out by all of his creatures!

T'Pol is consistent with what needs to be done from a careful Vulcan POV. Archer is rather rough with her and Trip's teasing is rather much at first. I like the way they all three soften towards each other and establish the trio power team: Trip when he accompanies T'Pol to the surface of Rigel and she helps him adjust without being condescending. Archer when he sees that T'Pol will defend and follow her captain, even when she disagrees with a decision. And T'Pol, when she realizes that the two men and the rest of the crew, are loyal and supportive, and include her in that camaraderie, when she also begins to help them with the ultimate mission with her knowledge and ideas.
All three gain in this exchange of trust and respect.

Liked the establishment of the skills for Hoshi (acute hearing), Travis (awesome flying), and Malcolm (alert security), along with their personality quirks.

Trip and Klaang in the shuttlepod......"I don't particularly like the way YOU smell EITHER!" FUNNY!

I'm fine with the decon scenes..especially with all that is on TV these days, these were always so very discreet by comparison, IMHO. And I for one am soooooo very glad we finally got eye candy for those of us who want the male body to be showcased! And oh my, was it ever!!!!

I'm okay with new species being introduced here, and never discussed in the other series....since here on Earth, we have HUMAN cultures that I have never been exposed to and probably would not bring up in a casual conversation, so statistically, each of the Trek series could have stand alone discussions of dozens of alien species never to be heard of again in Trekdom and still meet a realistic Trek World canon view.

I love the acting, like the characters, some of the writing needs to be polished, tech stuff is fun, overall, this is a good entertaining time for someone who likes really good television.

I also like the way the stories are told with a PC bent to them, however not with the writers/producers/actors personal preferences getting in the way. There were some controversial topics addressed, but the story was given in such a way that no matter what side of the issue you found yourself, the show was not forcing an opinion on us. They just gave a realistic story with real issues. And mostly NOT with the answers given...hey that's real life too.


And I would rather watch this on my DVD than most of the shows on now, ESPECIALLY those vapid reality shows.....bleeeegh!

And I will embrace the wonderful idea of taking notes next time.....thanks y'all!
TRIP: Hold on. You never said anything about feet.
T'POL: Is that a problem?
TRIP: Well, for one thing, I haven't had a shower since this morning, and I know how sensitive that Vulcan nose of your can be.And I'm a little ticklish.Maybe more than a little.
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Re: And so it begins: Broken Bow 1 & 2!

Postby JiNX-01 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:35 am

Glory1863 wrote:Trip and T'Pol fighting on the bridge in front of the crew? Not good - that's why the captain has a ready room. Did you notice how uncomfortable Reed and the others were?

Hmmm... I should watch that scene again because I didn't really notice the discomfort.

As for Trip getting in T'Pol's face on the bridge, I didn't really have a problem with that. After all, the humans were set up to dislike Vulcans for their interference, cold logic and arrogance. And as far was Trip was concerned, she was not Starfleet, she was not in command (he wouldn't have given a damn what Soval had to say about that) and she was going to be gone in a few days anyway. IMO, it was consistent for the crew to resist T'Pol's leadership and to want rescue their captain.
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Re: And so it begins: Broken Bow 1 & 2!

Postby asearcher » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:30 pm

Glad this rewatch is in effect. It's nice to see how others see things.

First...I'd posted this in FanVids but figured some may not have seen it. The host site will disappear in March (no longer hosting fanvids) so watch it now if you wish.

(Due to computer issues I've had, this is the only video I've done to date. I thought the song fit the episode to a 'T.' Please let me know what you think.

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/26721/866534 )

As to the episode, I don't want to be repetitious so I'll just note a few things...

1. I noticed they make the statement that Vulcan WOMEN have the heightened sense of smell. That apparently wasn't carried through because it seems to me that all Vulcan's were given that designation as time went on.

2. The one line that I found really bizarre was when Sarin changes. "That's never happened before..." Yep, I bet it was a new experience for sure but it had no real context...as in why would he say that? Had he had people change faces in some other way before?

3. I assumed for the decon that they might have been exposed to the spore at that one area where the kid was. It could be that the spore could only be passed from the alien to human or Vulcan and not from Vulcan or human to human. Thus only Trip and T'Pol would be affected. As to why the whole 'gel up,' I just assumed it was to provide maximum dosage to kill the spores.

There may be a few other pieces...but I'll post them at another time.
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I'm a BLONDE Vulcan...I'm MOSTLY logical.
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Re: And so it begins: Broken Bow 1 & 2!

Postby entkayjay » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:00 pm

Aw, lovely vid, asearcher! The lyrics were almost as if they were written for the episode. I hope you don't let it just disappear from the web -- have you tried YouTube?

asearcher wrote:2. The one line that I found really bizarre was when Sarin changes. "That's never happened before..." Yep, I bet it was a new experience for sure but it had no real context...as in why would he say that? Had he had people change faces in some other way before?


I think Archer said that because he'd kissed women for the first time before and they'd never gone all wrinkly and green on him. :D So that's what never happened before!
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Re: And so it begins: Broken Bow 1 & 2!

Postby Brandyjane » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:02 pm

JiNX-01 wrote:
Glory1863 wrote:Trip and T'Pol fighting on the bridge in front of the crew? Not good - that's why the captain has a ready room. Did you notice how uncomfortable Reed and the others were?

Hmmm... I should watch that scene again because I didn't really notice the discomfort.

As for Trip getting in T'Pol's face on the bridge, I didn't really have a problem with that. After all, the humans were set up to dislike Vulcans for their interference, cold logic and arrogance. And as far was Trip was concerned, she was not Starfleet, she was not in command (he wouldn't have given a damn what Soval had to say about that) and she was going to be gone in a few days anyway. IMO, it was consistent for the crew to resist T'Pol's leadership and to want rescue their captain.


I noticed the crew exchanging uneasy glances, too, and I think it added a lot of drama to the scene. I agree with you, though, Jinx, that Trip probably was right to get up in T'Pol's face when he thought she was about to just leave Archer behind. If he had just rolled over and let her run roughshod over him without speaking up, it would have shown him to be a wimp with poor leadership skills. T'Pol's place in the chain-of-command hadn't been established at this point, so she really had no right to make a decision to leave the captain of another species' ship behind in hostile territory.

I actually wonder what would have happened earlier if T'Pol hadn't changed her mind about helping them after the decon scene. Would Trip have just plowed ahead and done things his own way, anyway, without T'Pol's consent? In the past I always just assumed that it was a given that Trip had decided to just go along with T'Pol being in command, but this time around I started wondering if perhaps he might not have just marched straight to the bridge and taken command anyway, despite their conversation. Who would Reed have backed? If Trip had ordered Malcolm to throw her in the brig, would he have complied, would he have backed T'Pol, or would he have tried to contact Starfleet?

Maybe that's one reason why T'Pol decided to help them. Maybe she realized she couldn't do things her way, the Vulcan way, as long as Trip Tucker was there, and the best she could do was help them succeed if it was inevitable that they were going to whatever they wanted anyway. Regardless of her motivations, I do find it really interesting that right from the beginning Trip's affecting her actions and causing her to reevaluate her decisions.
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