Do some warning labels do more harm than good?

[Aquarius]

I think we've talked about this a little before, but it's come up for me again recently in another fandom with my recent Addams Family story. Certain conventions of posting a fic have evolved because people get upset about certain things - sometimes it's a general thing like major character death, sometimes it's fandom- or ship-specific. Not for the first time, I feel like I might've shot myself in the foot by doing readers a solid by putting the appropriate warning labels on things...but then the labels are leading them to imagine something much worse than what the fic actually contains.

My latest example has Gomez and Morticia in their twilight years; Morticia dies first, and Gomez commits suicide so he can follow her. It all follows the internal logic set up in the 1964 show; Gomez has previously attempted suicide when he thought Morticia didn't want him any more, and they both attempted it when they'd fallen in love but Gomez was betrothed to Morticia's sister, Ophelia, and couldn't get out of it. So it's not like I was introducing something new into the mix.

But sometimes I wonder if people are avoiding it because they think I'm killing Gomez off in order to hook Morticia up with Lurch or something. It occurs to me that maybe I could've put a bit more detail in the story description, but it's a pretty short piece, and I don't feel like I should have to give the whole thing away before it even starts. What's the point if you already know everything that's coming? All that remains is how I've done it.

There was another time at another place where I tried to give people a heads up about something that might squick on their 'ship. Despite my assurances that it would result in the happy endgame they'd want, it resulted in a bunch of drama. Many didn't consider the fact that it was my 'ship, too, and that I wanted these characters together just as much as they did. I just don't always write snapshotty pieces where the characters are already where we want them. I still have trouble reapproaching that story, and I'd like to actually finish it some day.

So my question is, has anyone else experienced this? Is it sometimes better to just do something and apologize for it later? Or is it still a good idea to do the proper labeling, and one should just suck it up as one's own fault for writing things that other people might not want to give a chance?

[Lillith]

I'm always a fan of proper labeling. If I see something that squicks me out I might not read it, but I may give the author or story a like for their forethought and respecting their readers. It's a sign of someone who cares for their work, just like spelling, keeping stories in character, and proper styling and grammar.

One of my favorite authors on AO3 writes things that are normally the opposite of what I like. But she labels everything right, her grammar/spelling is spot on, and she deals with whatever subject matter she's writing with grace and dignity.

[EntAllat]

Well, yes, sort of. I'm thinking of how moviemakers try to avoid an NC-17 rating versus an R rating. They often cite how they're concerned the stronger warning label will discourage people who might otherwise like it or be fine with it, from seeing it. Even with that concern, it's happened that movies with a controversial scene (even one that's kept secret) have been very popular, so long as the teasers, marketing and word-of-mouth from happy viewers has been good.

You need the labels to warn those to whom your product might not be palatable. But are your other "marketing materials" getting across how much someone might enjoy it nevertheless? Or that it's not quite what they're assuming because of the label? Is it enticing readers to your story, despite the warnings? Are you getting any word-of-mouth from people who're happy with your story?

Revamping the summary for the story will probably help. But since readers may filter your story out of the possibilities before even seeing the summary, it's likely you'll also need help from elsewhere: i.e. other readers who would recommend it to their peers with reassurances that it's "sweet" and just right for their 'ship, or that it is true to the show, or whatever message you're trying to get across to clarify that, despite the label, it might still be someone's cup of tea.

[Aquarius]

God point about the "marketing materials," EntAllat.

I get it with the new story. It's a new fandom I'm writing in, they don't know me yet, etc. I half expected it. I have a pretty high threshold for most stuff and I'm usually pretty good at reminding myself a lot of people don't. Plus they have no reason to trust me yet. This situation is a little different, too, in that I didn't seek a community and then start writing, so I literally have no support such as that which you mentioned in terms of word of mouth, etc. Just hi, here I am, and here's a little story I wrote. So yeah, I knew it would be harder and given that school takes up so much time and energy, it's not like I could regularly feed a hungry readership as folks around here well know.

It's just that it got me to wondering if maybe some of us couldn't also benefit from an "okay, I've given you the warnings but it's not as awful as you're thinking" button.

In terms of the second example, someone literally suggested to me at the time that it might have been better to just do what I was going to do and worry about the consequences when it happened. I was almost inclined to agree, since a lot of what I think I was dealing with at the time was a bunch of people deliberately missing the point of what I was doing in order to get self-righteously indignant, but either way there would have been drama. That was a situation, I think, in which there was no right answer.

I can think of other times when fic writers have had the squeeze put on them by readers because of what's in the warning label, not because of a personal wound it opens but for the sake of shaming the author without really knowing the what/how/why. I understand about people not finding certain things palatable, for all sorts of reasons.

As a reader, I love labels because they help me find what I'm looking for. They're particularly useful in a fandom as big as Star Trek where there are so many different series (and now universes), 'ship combinations, characters, etc. As a site admin, I love them because they're there, so nobody can complain if they happen on something they don't like.

As a writer, though, I'm acknowledging that sometimes I have a love/hate relationship with them, and wondered if anyone else felt the same.

[Kathy Rose]

Well, I seem to be going the other way on this topic. I've gotten to the point where I go with what I think is best for my story, and not so much by how I think readers will react. I know that I may get some grief from readers because of this. I also know labeling is a fanfic practice, practically a ruie and definitely a courtesy. So we try to abide by it. But IMO, we go way overboard trying to protect the reader -- from him- or herself. At the first sign of something a reader doesn't like, that person should quit reading. That's what I do when I pick up a book, start to read it, and realize I don't like it -- I quit reading. No one forces me to finish the book. And I certainly don't go out of my way to berate the author for something I didn't like about his or her story.

I do appreciate warning labels and ship labels. But sometimes they actually detract from a story. Most of my experience with this has been in labeling 'ships. I deliberately labeled a story, A Christmas Conspiracy, as Archer and T'Pol, not A/T'Pol. If I had labeled the 'ship up front, it would have given away the (hopefully) surprise ending.

Another time, a reader and I had a long dialogue about a perceived MU T/T. The reader claimed he wouldn't have read the story if he knew that was involved. But in my eyes, as the writer, it wasn't a 'ship, it was an expediency situation, with MU T'Pol using MU Trip to further her own aims. There was no 'ship, because while Trip lusted after T'Pol, she only obliged or initiated when it worked to her advantage. Is that situation truly a 'ship? As the writer, I felt labeling it a 'ship would have been wrong. And a discerning reader might have realized that, too, if he had actually thought about it why it wasn't labeled as a 'ship, instead of having a knee-jerk reaction.

I think we'll still have this type of situation no matter how we label things.

[Lady C]

At the first sign of something a reader doesn't like, that person should quit reading.

Sometimes though, especially with triggers, the first sign is too late.

There is of course still a lot of gray area's - you can't possibly warn for everything and people's ideas of what should be warned for or not tend to vary greatly - and like with your ship example Kathy Rose (maybe a label like "non-romantic T/T'P" could work).

Personally, I'd rather over-warn and realise that it may lose me some readers than accidentally hit someone's squicks or, worse, triggers.

Of course there is always the option to hide the warning (spoiler cut, link, code) so people who don't care/like being surprised can look past it and people who know they have problems with certain areas/tropes/pairings can still get the information they need.

[Aquarius]

I understand triggers.

I can't listen to the Smiths without crying. Ever. But I don't always get to control when I come into contact with their music. If I'm in the car and the radio station hasn't warned me, I don't feel like they owed it to me to warn me. I just change the station. If I'm in public, I try to stay reasonably distracted by other stuff and hold it in until later until I can have my good cry. I can hope that all I do is just tear up a little bit, blame it on allergies or whatever until I can deal with it adequately. But mentally and emotionally, I'm just off, for a good, long time. It's a day wrecker. And the harder I try to control it, the more exhausting it is.

Sometimes, when I'm home alone, I'll tough it out and listen through and let it break me in half, because it's good music.

But I never turn on my radio or go into public places expecting to be warned that they might play the Smiths or that they're going to play the Smiths. I recognize that this is my issue and when my shrink and I are done working some other crap out, I'm sure we'll get around to talking about it. But for now, I don't feel like it's everyone else's responsibility to protect me from something that lots of other people really enjoy and others still can take or leave.

I'm not sure what I hoped to accomplish by revealing that, except to say that I sort of feel that some of this warning label stuff works the same way.

[jespah]

Well, I seem to be going the other way on this topic. I've gotten to the point where I go with what I think is best for my story, and not so much by how I think readers will react. I know that I may get some grief from readers because of this. I also know labeling is a fanfic practice, practically a ruie and definitely a courtesy. So we try to abide by it. But IMO, we go way overboard trying to protect the reader -- from him- or herself. At the first sign of something a reader doesn't like, that person should quit reading. That's what I do when I pick up a book, start to read it, and realize I don't like it -- I quit reading. No one forces me to finish the book. And I certainly don't go out of my way to berate the author for something I didn't like about his or her story.

I do appreciate warning labels and ship labels. But sometimes they actually detract from a story. ....

I'm with Kathy (although I can see the other points). I think at some points it gets to be a little much. After all, there are potentially as many triggers out there as there are people. We can't account for all of them.

I know that people have triggers and I get that, but I think once you've covered the biggest triggers, I think you're done. The biggest triggers would be character death or character suicide, possibly abortion. I think that's about it. After that, you're getting into people's 'ship preferences. That really shouldn't be confused with a trigger; I think that just muddies the waters between legitimate fear response versus someone's preference. And you can't write to all preferences; you'd either never write, or you'd end up with a bland story that everyone would find safe but would be pretty damned awful, as it would be devoid of conflict, drama, etc.

If it bothers someone that much, they might want to step away from the keyboard.

I know not everyone is going to love what I write. I'm fine with that.

[Frakme]

At the first sign of something a reader doesn't like, that person should quit reading.

Sometimes though, especially with triggers, the first sign is too late.

I'd agree with this, I read a HP fanfic where I read something so vile that I didn't expect that I reported the fic for violating their guidelines. And I have a fairly low threshold for stuff as well. Except for MPreg. Although funnily enough, Star Trek:Enterprise is the only fandom where I have found good and plausible MPreg stories (not necessarily Unexpected related either!).

But I can understand why you are conflicted, Aquarius. And I agree that it can be difficult to avoid triggers, out in the real world.
It is a tricky one, because you don't want to alienate your audience by not warning them and then ticking them off because they didn't realise a story contained their personal 'squick'. But sometimes you don't want to spoil at upcoming plot twists.
There's also the whole 'ship issue where you want to leave the 'ship ambiguous, because you want to leave it up to the reader's imagination or you want the focus to remain on one of the pair and not the other. I say this because I wrote a short story that could easily be read as T'Pol/Archer or T'Pol/Trip. I published it on ff.net without stating the 'ship because I did not want to explicitly state the pairing as I wanted the focus to be on T'Pol, a Vulcan and the ramifications of her relationship with a Human.

I think it is probably better to warn than not to warn, you just need to be judicious about what warnings you use!

[Aquarius]

It occurs to me to ask, how are we defining "trigger"? And what, exactly, is the subject matter in question "triggering" within the reader? I ask because it's kind of important to define one's terms.

I'm not a mental health professional, but I minored in psychology as an undergrad so I think that means I can safely say I have a better than average understanding of how some facets of the mind work. PTSD, for example, is a trauma-related disorder that can have "triggers."

If we're talking about "triggering" a reaction within a reader that's so strong and so bad that it prevents them from otherwise functioning normally, then I'm here to tell you that whatever is going on is not the author or the hosting website's fault. The issue lies within the reader and not the story. I truly am a little worried about someone whose day is going to come to a grinding halt because they read a story where their favorite character dies or they clicked on something not expecting certain characters to be in a relationship. Anything that can prevent you from participating in life is something that should be addressed with a professional

There is a difference between that and stuff that, as a society, we generally find unpleasant. Sex is stigmatized, so yes, it's a good idea to warn that the content is there. Violence is stigmatized, so yes, it's a good idea to warn that the content is there. Socially, we've kind of agreed that we need special information about this content in movies, books, TV shows, etc. I also point out that this is stuff that doesn't give away plot stuff; it just gives you a rough idea of what you're going to find when you get there.

There's also a big difference between a trigger that will wreck your day and something that you just find distasteful. Even if you find it really, REALLY distasteful. And I think that some people blow distasteful out of proportion and behave as though it's a trigger. Again, I think this deserves some accountability and reflection on the part of the reader. If it's something that as a society we agree is distasteful and wrong (ie, child abuse) - absolutely, it needs a label. But I had a character you don't like make eyes at a character you 'ship with someone else? And you're going to have a fit even though it went unnoticed or rebuffed by that character? Then I'm with Kathy Rose - quit reading. If that's all it takes to wreck your day, you have deeper issues than what I wrote.

I see Jespah's point for warning that the other hot-button things are present in a fic, but I'm finding myself having mixed emotions about it. As an admin, I'm saying yes, yes, yes! - mostly because I know not doing so would lead to drama. But as a private citizen and writer, maybe I'm not so sure any more. I mean, maybe when I'm done questioning it, I'll still come out on the side of "yeah, labels are cool, go labels!" But I also think that this is leading me to a bigger question, which is how/why is it we're assuming all this extra responsibility in fan fiction that people are expected to assume for themselves elsewhere?