Voyager Discussion

[Honeybee]

Here's a cute blog post about a blink-and-you'll miss it West Wing/Voyager crossover, courtesy of Voyager's art department:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronom ... tlett.html

[Honeybee]

Here's a very cool girl-power defense/celebration of Voyager:

http://www.rogerebert.com/balder-and-da ... t-messages

[tarheelladync]

I think the article is spot-on. I loved Voyager and it's female leads. Janeway was by far my favorite, the writers managed to show her leadership, while still writing her as a woman. She wasn't afraid of her emotions, but she wasn't going to back away from making the tough decisions. I have heard many of the same slams about how they wrote her character. Strong does not mean she can't feel or have doubts. Many times she just had to be the Queen "B" and that's okay. Working in a business that still has very few women in positions of authority, I too have learned that sometimes you have to be that "B", to get the hard work done.

[Honeybee]

What's great about that article is that it calls out the misogynist fan reaction to Voyager in a way that is clear but not particularly hostile or accusatory. It just calls it out in context of the discussion.

Voyager has really grown on me over the years. Just like all the series, it has some awful episodes, but there's a handful of absolutely great ones, and it did make female-ness valuable without making the female characters masculine, the way that Game of Thrones does even now. Also, as over-the-top and silly as Seven's outfits were, it was very clever to make her a character that did not understand or use her sexuality to manipulate men, so she did not fall into the femme fatale trap. Although I do think the article is spot-on in its analysis of Seven as child abuse survivor.

Another thing the article hints at is with a female protagonist, the writing empathizes with the victims of war and crime and even puts the crew in a position to be victims, though they usually come out having survived. The show's premise itself made the crew more vulnerable than any other Trek, and for viewers who were drawn to captains as frontmen of empire, that was probably uncomfortable.

[Kathy Rose]

The article was very interesting with some well-reasoned viewpoints. I loved Voyager when it first aired, and honestly, I couldn't figure out where all the hate about it was coming from. Maybe it's because I have no problem with women in strong lead roles that don't rely on men in any way whatsoever, and who will try to avoid war and fighting if at all possible, seeing that as a last resort to conflict resolution. So I guess it makes sense that I could relate to Voyager, while fanboys might not be able to.

Having been in positions of leadership over men at times in my career, I can particularly relate to the comment about women having to be a B---- sometimes simply to get cooperation and get the work done.

A lot of good insight into Seven of Nine's role, too. Not only from a sexuality standpoint but also I could never figure out why "The Raven" always made me vaguely uncomfortable. To the best of my recollection, since it's been years since I've seen that episode, I don't remember it actually overtly saying Seven had been abused as a child, but for whatever reason, I didn't translate "the clues." When I read the author's comments about the episode, it suddenly made sense.

[Honeybee]

What I love about the episode, is that it didn't gloss over Voyager's flaws, but it wasn't reductive. It's so easy just to take potshots at writing shortcuts like their never-ending supply of shuttles or Seven of Nine's over-the-top outfits. This article moved beyond that to look at what the show did right and why it might make certain people uncomfortable.

It's interesting, I knew a guy who grew up Catholic in Northern Ireland and while he was very masculine, Voyager was hands down his favorite show. I always thought it was because of the Maquis, but this article makes me think it was deeper than that. Voyager empathized with victims of injustice and war and violence, it didn't just frame it in context of the all-powerful rescuer. But it wasn't cynical, either. I remember during the Penn State scandal, a male sports writer was on a podcast talking about how organizations with at least some women in power are far less likely to tolerate sexual abuse (it's not absolute, but it's definitely true to a point). The reason he gave was that women tend to empathize with victims, where men trying to climb a patriarchal ladder tend to empathize with the people in power and subconsciously fear speaking out for victims will make you look weak, despite how counter intuitive that is. I thought of that when I read this article, and when you think about it, Voyager being de-coupled with the mass power that was the Federation, make it very vulnerable will still trying to cling to ideals that are easier to conform to when you have that kind of power behind you. On top of that, the crew (male and female) tended to empathize (not just want to rescue) small, marginalized communities that they met along the way.

Seven did turn out to be a fascinating character, and I'm going to rewatch some of the episodes in context with this author's assertion of her as a Hitchcock-type blond, victim. I'm totally going to start with The Raven.

[Frakme]

Sassy Captain Janeway!

I want to start watching Voyager again!