(2x13) Dawn: Cooperation

[Honeybee]

Discuss Dawn here!

[Aquarius]

Just off the cuff here, since I'm fresh off the chat: I knew there'd be Trip fans and much analysis of his body, but I hadn't anticipated so many jokes, references, and observations about his posterior.

[Honeybee]

I like this episode, informed by Darmok and Enemy Mine, but it's got it's own special Trip spin on it.

And as we all said in the chat, the monologue at the end when Trip recounts some of his adventures is just wonderful.

[lfvoy]

As I mentioned in the chat, for some reason I'm finding myself a bit sympathetic to the Arkonians. It's primarily, I think, because of T'Pol's dismissive description of them:

Your people accepted Vulcan guidance, opened diplomatic and cultural exchanges. The Arkonians were suspicious and deceitful. Eventually, the High Command withdrew its contingent.

Given the various human attitudes about "Vulcan guidance," I could imagine a situation where, while humans were able to swallow their pride, the Arkonians may not have been. Zho'kaan's decision to fire without provocation, despite the fact that he likely knew it could result in punishment, smacks of pride and arrogance. Perhaps the problem was that the Arkonians were just as prideful as the Vulcans, with the predictable result?

I know I know, I'm playing devil's advocate, but it does make for an interesting plot bunny.

[Mistress Euclid]

Oh, dear. I missed it! And I do love this episode. Enemy Mine has always been a favorite movie of mine, and "Darmok" is in my Top Three favorite TNG episodes, so it's a given that I would love "Dawn" so much. Darn it all!

[Aquarius]

As I mentioned in the chat, for some reason I'm finding myself a bit sympathetic to the Arkonians. It's primarily, I think, because of T'Pol's dismissive description of them:

Your people accepted Vulcan guidance, opened diplomatic and cultural exchanges. The Arkonians were suspicious and deceitful. Eventually, the High Command withdrew its contingent.

Given the various human attitudes about "Vulcan guidance," I could imagine a situation where, while humans were able to swallow their pride, the Arkonians may not have been. Zho'kaan's decision to fire without provocation, despite the fact that he likely knew it could result in punishment, smacks of pride and arrogance. Perhaps the problem was that the Arkonians were just as prideful as the Vulcans, with the predictable result?

I know I know, I'm playing devil's advocate, but it does make for an interesting plot bunny.

I see what you're saying. And when we saw humans finally push back, as in "Broken Bow," we know that the Vulcans' opinion of them dropped -- except for T'Pol, who gradually grew to understand and respect them. It's easy to imagine another society that may not have taken it as well as the humans in the first place.

On the other hand, T'Pol had use the word "deceitful." The Arkonians either withheld something, or they bald-faced lied at some point. I don't think she would've used that word if she didn't believe that there was some sort of malice involved. But it's very interesting to ponder just what went wrong there, considering you have two vastly different cultures with different values and different reactions to/interpretations of things.

[EntAllat]

As I mentioned in the chat, for some reason I'm finding myself a bit sympathetic to the Arkonians. It's primarily, I think, because of T'Pol's dismissive description of them:

Your people accepted Vulcan guidance, opened diplomatic and cultural exchanges. The Arkonians were suspicious and deceitful. Eventually, the High Command withdrew its contingent.

Given the various human attitudes about "Vulcan guidance," I could imagine a situation where, while humans were able to swallow their pride, the Arkonians may not have been. Zho'kaan's decision to fire without provocation, despite the fact that he likely knew it could result in punishment, smacks of pride and arrogance. Perhaps the problem was that the Arkonians were just as prideful as the Vulcans, with the predictable result?

I know I know, I'm playing devil's advocate, but it does make for an interesting plot bunny.

Oooh. The anthropologist in me really likes this theory.

I'd still take T'Pol's description as accurate, from a Vulcan point of view, since as a group they seemed to have a partially truthful picture of many of the races that Humans have yet to meet. It does make me wonder where relations with the Arkonians went from here.

[Brandyjane]

This is one of my favorite season two episodes. I wish I could have joined in the live chat, but I did watch it again not too long ago. I like how resourceful Trip is, from the minute he realizes he's going down. Now that's a guy T'Pol could fall in love with!

I've wondered, too, what exactly went wrong between the Vulcans and Arkonians. I also wonder how much of the story T'Pol really knows. The word "deceptive" is pretty loaded, so I would expect that she has something to back it up. Then again, she could just be repeating the party line.

[paulinem]

Dammit! Missed it again! I sooo love this episode, but I've had such an insanely busy week that I couldn't make it. Okay, I'm gonna try for the alternative re-watch on the weekend. And I'm hoping, crossing fingers, holding my breath actually, that my DVD's will arrive before then.

[lfvoy]

Then again, she could just be repeating the party line.

Hm. This idea seems to start an interesting segue into next week's episode.