the delphic expanse

TnT in ProFic (Spoiler Discussion) TAKE TWO

Discussion, story pimpage, and anything else relating to the TnT pairing.

TnT in ProFic (Spoiler Discussion) TAKE TWO

Postby Honeybee » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:56 am

Mod's Note: This thread is not a general discussion of the books, but rather a specific discussion of the TnT pairing for those who have read and/or are reading the books. Go express your dislike or like of general aspects of the book down in the fic section.


Brought over from the locked thread.

Moving this over the the temp forum. Reanok wrote:


I was reading another discussion at another board and I wish we gotten some more scenes of Trip&T'Pol in the last novel. I really liked what they portrayed the relationship but I also think alot of the fanfic stories add alot more depth to the characters and their relationship. I also wish we'd also gotten more story interaction with the Enterpise crew would've been nice I know that Micheal Martin has alot of details to deal with The Romulan war but I think it would be a good idea to show more of the Vulcan/Romulan intigue and the Andorians.More of Valdore plotting and Planning.Any thoughts or ideas you would've like to have seen in the Enterprise novels?





I was particularly frustrated with that conversation, since I think that Martin, in particular, made the TnT romance a pretty big part of the last book. Yes, it was frustrating that they were separated after realizing they are essentially married and meant to be with one another. However, I think Martin was setting them up with a whole lovers-torn-apart-by-war for the next book, and his hands are tied by the fact that Trip can't ever surface.

Since I know how hard Clark and Martin and Mangels fought to reunite TnT in the books, it always feels a little disingenuous when idiots start bitching and moaning because profic doesn't read like gushy romantic fanfic or doesn't exactly mold with what they want.

I had my problems with the RW book (Hey, Gannet Brooks, did you happen to eat the main crew?). But I did think the TnT romance was as romantic, sexual and as much a part of the plot - the bond is after a key factor in Trip figuring out that he has a memory loss - as you can expect in profic.


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Postby Reanok » Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:38 am

When it comes to the last book too much time was used to show Gannett Brooks in the novels.When the next book comesout use the Enterrpise characters give them something Important to do in the next book instead of shoving them aside. I want to see Trip&T'pol have a larger role in the next book when it comes to them investagating what happened on Vulcan. Micheal told me he planned on having our favorite couple having an important role to play in the next book. I sure do hope that's true! The bond is very important to Trip and T'Pol was worried about his tampered memories at the Romulan shipyards.
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Postby Mistress Euclid » Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:48 am

That is true. I definitely think Martin had a plan in mind with all these intrigues - including what happened during Trip's memory loss.

One of the issues with mystery/suspense tales is making sure there is a payoff.

I also tend to enjoy spy stories when they are told in prose, and I thought the spy plot was the strongest part of the books.
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Postby Honeybee » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:11 am

I also want to reiterate - I'm think Martin was modeling some of the RW book after some of the war epic novels of the 70s and 80s like The Winds of War and North and South - where the story follows multiple people and multiple perspectives. In those books, there is always a couple - usually married or engaged - that is torn apart - comes back together - only to be torn apart again - until the war ends and they are reunited.
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Postby Aquarius » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:16 am

Hopefully I'll be able to dive into this conversation soon. I haven't read RW yet. In fact, the only one I've read completely Kobyashi Maru, and I'm slightly more than halfway through The Good that Men Do. I'm hoping this discussion isn't over by the time I have enough free time to do pleasure-reading!
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Postby Reanok » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:24 am

Honeybee I think you're right about the way Micheal is plotting how the Romulan war story is unfolding from an interview Earlier this year he mentioned writing similar to Worldwar 2 kind of storytelling of the events being told from multiple characters eallies and enemies both which is happening during the Romulan war.ME I enjoy reading spy and mystery intrigue novels too. :)
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Postby EntAllat » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:05 pm

I'll have to re-read the books in succession now, but I think you've hit the nail on the head with the comparisons to the epic war stories, Honeybee.

I wonder what leeway the authors of the relaunch books might have now that the franchise has two universes - due to the new movie. Before the new movie I could see that the rules for authors about what they could do, regarding TnT's relationship, would be fairly strict in order to keep whatever kind of continuity the publishers had decided fit business decisions for the franchise.

But now? Could a relaunch author possibly work out a permanent happy ending for TnT in one of the novels? Peter David's "Imzadi" did a lot for the Riker/Troi relationship that was also left hanging a bit at the end of TNG and probably influenced its development through the movies. It'd be seriously cool to see a series of TnT inspired novels.
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Re: TnT in ProFic (Spoiler Discussion) TAKE TWO

Postby lfvoy » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:18 am

You know, there's one thing that has really bothered me about RW.

What was the purpose of the sequence where
T'Pol and Malcolm took a ship into Romulan space in order to rescue Trip, but he ended up turning them down?


In addition to it seeming to be out of character for all three of them (including the "take a walk" exchange) it didn't seem to advance the plot at all? If anything it came across as a way to slip in some gratuitous nookie.

Don't misunderstand; I love it when our star-crossed lovers get a chance to get uncrossed for a while. But one reason I love TnT in the first place is because of the characters themselves. They're far too professional to take the kind of risks that sequence took just for the sake of having some "quality time." Indeed, given Trip's later actions nearer the end of the book, when he
stayed on Vulcan instead of going back to Enterprise
...it wasn't even internally consistent.

What did I miss plotwise there?
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Re: TnT in ProFic (Spoiler Discussion) TAKE TWO

Postby Honeybee » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:15 am

There's no need for spoiler bars in this thread, since it's clearly marked a spoiler discussion! :)

I think part of the frustration of the books is the fact that Trip can't come in from the cold. The authors were told they had to work within TATV, and so early on in another book they established Trip never came back from the dead. At this point in the books, however, he seems to think he can as part of his internal motivation.

I thought there was something wonderfully gratuitous about the shuttle sequence in the KM, though I agree it is a bit implausible that Trip would refuse rescue. However, I think the authors were going a war-is-hell vibe where lovers are going to grab moments when they can since it is likely Trip will not be returning from this mission. He was established as being borderline suicidal when he signed on. And in WWI and WWII, sexual inhibitions that were part of the times just sort of evaporated in the face of all that death. I think that's part of what happened.

The end of the last book is a little different. Trip has gone way beyond his assignment, is missing pieces of his memory and something strange is going on. In that case, it seems he doesn't believe he's so much in mortal danger as he's the only person who can figure out the mystery, while she is needed on Enterprise. Trip wants to go home, leave with T'Pol but he also thinks he has a duty to figure out what is going on. It feels very "war epic" because they are separated yet again by circumstances. It reminds me of those war epics like Winds of War and North and South that were popular in the 70s and 80s.

Also, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that one of those sinister Vulcan V'Shar agents that have been working with Trip have messed with his head in some way.
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Re: TnT in ProFic (Spoiler Discussion) TAKE TWO

Postby Aquarius » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:44 pm

Implausible or not, I love it and I'm glad they did it. :adore Gratuitous? Okay. But you know what? I believe that was their way of throwing us TnTers a bone because we were so incensed over "Do you ever miss me?" THAT was way more "WTF???" than "take a walk."

Just my loose change.
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