the delphic expanse

TnT and Twilight

Discussion, story pimpage, and anything else relating to the TnT pairing.

TnT and Twilight

Postby Honeybee » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:41 pm

Aquarius and I were discussing some older fics, and I know I\'ve posted this link before, but if you haven\'t read the short, one chapter (R-Rated) TnT Twilight story,

Tender by Stub

Go read it! Aquarius and I were discussing that while Twilight is properly read as an Archer/T\'Pol story, the de-railment of TnT does feel a little abrupt. Even when I wrote my Archer/T\'Pol Twilight story Desperation - the ghost of TnT is all over it. Then, I wrote the long TnT story Dusk, because I just don\'t buy that TnT wouldn\'t at least lean on each other through that crisis. Yes, Mike Sussman knew that and wrote in a some resentment lines to explain it, but - I think there\'s some wiggle room there.

;)
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Re: TnT and Twilight

Postby Reanok » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:02 pm

I've always like this story Stub wrote she's written alot of great stories I also recommend Forsakenthat takes palce during season,I really like how their relationship was portrayed in this story it shows how deeply connected these two really are the tragic events in Twilight.
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Re: TnT and Twilight

Postby HopefulNebula » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:35 am

Interpretations like Stub's are actually why I don't mind "Twilight" as much as I would otherwise. Not so much in the "waaaaa, they sunk my ship for all of an episode! Woe!" kind of way, but in the "if you're going to write something that takes place in (a) future, at least give some indication of who the characters were then as well as who they are now" way.

At least they didn't explicitly go the "50 First Dates" route. That movie was just creepy.

...Had it even come out when Twilight was written? Wikipedia says they came out around the same time. Huh.
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Re: TnT and Twilight

Postby Brandyjane » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:09 am

I actually just re-watched "Twilight" for the first time in a long time a few nights ago. Since it's on Netflix streaming, I was able to see it on a decent-sized screen for the first time ever. WOW! I actually teared up a little toward the climax of the episode. I didn't mind the idea that T'Pol might have fallen in love with Jon after all those years of caring for him. The idea that she might have acted on her feelings disturbed me a little, though, because he has serious brain damage and it would seem unethical. I don't think she'd have done that.

As for TnT, I buy the explanation they gave on screen for why they grew apart. After all, this would have happened before Sim declared Trip's feelings to T'Pol, and before T'Pol acted on her own feelings in "Harbinger." I did think that they were giving each other some pretty intense looks, though, so I don't think all of the feelings between them were gone.
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Re: TnT and Twilight

Postby Honeybee » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:42 am

I think on the commentary track, Mike Sussman says that nothing really could have gone on between Archer and T'Pol because of the memory issue. It would have been creepy. Even in a pon farr situation, it would be very borderline, despite her needing to save her own life.

I agree that there's some looks between TnT and even affection when she returns to the ship with Archer. I think those of us writers who have shoe horned TnT into this episode have taken that subtext and run with it.
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Re: TnT and Twilight

Postby Aquarius » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:05 pm

While I'm a huge fan of Honeybee's "Desperation", I think that within the framework of the show's canon, T'Pol would have gone to Trip for that particular need. I think it's logical (pardon the language!) to assume that the bond would have manifested itself at some point in this alternate time line, as an alternative to the sequence of "The Aenar," "Affliction," "Divergence," and "Bound." If Archer was not mentally sound to make such a choice, I could see that, within the framework of the show, T'Pol would go to Trip because of all the men on the ship, she had the highest level of intimacy with him -- even if "Harbinger" didn't happen. Much like the personal issue of the letter involving Koss in "Breaking the Ice," she'd seek out someone she already had some measure of personal trust in, or someone who already kind of knew what was going on. From a physiological standpoint, Phlox is an option because he understands Vulcan biology and the way it relates to her culture, however having sex with your doctor in order to save your life is kind of creepy. ;)

Trip's pretty much her man.
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Re: TnT and Twilight

Postby bluetiger » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:27 pm

From a caregiver point of view, I don't care how much you care about the person, years of telling him the same story day in and day out would not promote any romance. I love the story Tender for the very reason that it show T'Pol so worn down by the care Jon requires. I could even see her having a breakdown if it had continued for ten or twenty more years.

I can't see her turning to anyone but Trip just for the few hours of freedom from the situation. Show me a caregiver that doesn't go loopy if they never get a break from their charge.
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Re: TnT and Twilight

Postby Honeybee » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:33 pm

For those of you who haven't read Desperation - the basic premise is T'Pol seduces Archer when her pon farr comes along. And it's called Desperation for a reason, the whole situation is meant to be sad. She knows that ethically what she's doing is wrong. In the beginning, she thinks about Trip but decides not to go there. I left the reasons open, but in my mind it was because she didn't want to hurt or use Trip. The implication was that there was still very strong emotion between them.

After I wrote that, I wrote Dusk which imagines TnT having a long and complicated relationship behind the scenes. I still am amazed at how many TnT-ers were furious with me for that story. I didn't want to write a "everything is awesome, she still loves Trip" behind the scenes story for the episode. I wanted it to be hard for them and to explain why they weren't together in the episode.

Logically, it made a lot of sense to me that at a point, TnT would end up together. They both love Archer. They are the two most senior officers left. They already have an attraction and a deep friendship. So, the friction seen in the episode, in my mind, wouldn't derail the relationship completely. So, I had to come up with a couple of hardships that would explain what we saw.

I got a lot of heat for having them keep their relationship quiet. To me, it was the most natural thing in the world that they would be discreet. Not only because of their positions, but because people might not take well to an inter-species relationship between the colony's two more important people. A lot of people objected to this as well as the fact that they break up for a time.

And yes, Bluetiger, you are right. A caregiver needs a break now and then. I definitely worked that into Dusk as well.
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Re: TnT and Twilight

Postby T'Arwen » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:34 pm

Warp Five has interviewed Mike Sussman. Here are some highlights.
trek.fm/warp-five/113

-He was surprised that some people didn't see the Archer/T'Pol subtext in Twilight. He thought it was obvious. Interestingly in a previous episode, the hosts questioned if it was even there.
-He also found Trip and T'Pol fun to write. He did not say which pair he liked better.
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