the delphic expanse

I realize that I'm probably not one to talk, since I tend to ignore canon whenever it suits me. However, there is something I've been wondering about: where did the idea that Trip was supposed to be first officer come from? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that there's any evidence that supports this (on the show, anyway).

I hope this isn't a 'forum grenade' topic. If so, feel free to ignore or delete this.

Old Post

This is where I think it comes from: rank.

Archer: Captain
Tucker: Commander
Reed: Lt. Commander
Sato: Ensign
Mayweather: Ensign

This was to be the set-up before T'Pol was sent to join the crew, who has a rank equivalent to commander. And, it makes logical sense that T'Pol, when she fully joined the crew, would be the first officer--as Trip's duties as chief engineer would take a lot of his time.

Those are my two thoughts, anyway.

Misplaced wrote:This is where I think it comes from: rank.

Archer: Captain
Tucker: Commander
Reed: Lt. Commander
Sato: Ensign
Mayweather: Ensign

This was to be the set-up before T'Pol was sent to join the crew, who has a rank equivalent to commander. And, it makes logical sense that T'Pol, when she fully joined the crew, would be the first officer--as Trip's duties as chief engineer would take a lot of his time.

Those are my two thoughts, anyway.

Reed was supposed to be a Lt. Commander? I didn't know that.

And I definitely agree with that last part. I thought the exact same thing!

As has been noted, it was never specified that Trip was first officer before T'Pol. However, since Trip was always next in command when Archer and T'Pol were off the ship, it would be a logical assumption.

I do remember one time that Trip got all up in Archers grill when he thought he was making a bad decision. In the episode Daedalus (which is one of my least favorites except for that scene) Trip told Archer flat out that he was letting his emotions get in the way of ship and crew safety. Of course I realize this was after the Expanse and Trip was a tougher man but I still think he would be a good first officer.

bluetiger wrote:As has been noted, it was never specified that Trip was first officer before T'Pol. However, since Trip was always next in command when Archer and T'Pol were off the ship, it would be a logical assumption.

I do remember one time that Trip got all up in Archers grill when he thought he was making a bad decision. In the episode Daedalus (which is one of my least favorites except for that scene) Trip told Archer flat out that he was letting his emotions get in the way of ship and crew safety. Of course I realize this was after the Expanse and Trip was a tougher man but I still think he would be a good first officer.

I've read fanfic and forum threads that seem to insist that he was meant to be first officer, but was passed over in favor of T'Pol.

And yes, Daedelus showed that Trip would've been an excellent first officer.

Hummingbird2 wrote:I've read fanfic and forum threads that seem to insist that he was meant to be first officer, but was passed over in favor of T'Pol.

It was never expressly stated, but there is enough "evidence," if you will, to support that it's implied that he was supposed to be the first officer. T'Pol wasn't originally part of the crew roster. There were no last-minuter roster changes mentioned other than adding her. There was no other first officer who was transferred away or left in a huff or died. Trip is the only other featured character of sufficient rank and experience to have held the job if T'Pol wasn't there. Trip is always in charge when Archer and T'Pol are gone, unless for some reason he's gone, too.

I can't really find anything present in the show that creates an equally strong argument that says he wasn't the first officer before T'Pol showed up. Also, the pilot and, by extension, the first two seasons, are chock full of who-has-what-authority because T'Pol is technically working for the High Command and is on loan to Starfleet. Archer is in command of the ship, but she is supervising the mission so that made her de facto next in charge without "officially" being the first officer.

In essence, what I'm saying is, in the case of this show, being second in command may not necessarily mean you're the first officer, especially when you're taking over under a different chain of authority.

^That makes a lot of sense. I can go along with that.

Thanks for commenting everybody! It's one of those things I was curious about.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they'd have the Chief Engineer, who is only sometimes on the bridge, be the first officer. Although, I can see where people would make that assumption. But in Broken Bow, it's made clear that Archer hasn't yet chosen his science officer, and my assumption has been that whomever that science officer would be would carry a rank that would make them the first officer. Of course, in NASA, the Science astronauts are not part of the command structure but in Starfleet they are.

Technically, there should have been a "Riker" figure whose background was similar to Archer's, but that wasn't the case in TOS either and Enterprise aped that bridge command structure.

Honeybee wrote:It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they'd have the Chief Engineer, who is only sometimes on the bridge, be the first officer.

This is one reason why I think it would be a bad idea to name him first officer, though I suspect that was the original plan. Trip and Jon were both so naive in the beginning. They had no idea how frequently they would get in trouble out there, and how often Trip would have an emergency in engineering due to those troubles.

Honeybee wrote:Although, I can see where people would make that assumption. But in Broken Bow, it's made clear that Archer hasn't yet chosen his science officer, and my assumption has been that whomever that science officer would be would carry a rank that would make them the first officer. Of course, in NASA, the Science astronauts are not part of the command structure but in Starfleet they are.

I never considered that. This does seem very possible. Maybe Trip was just the acting first officer until Jon made a permanent selection. I think that as the series progressed, Trip would have been very good at the job, if it had been given to him. But in the beginning I think he was still a little too in awe of Jon to confront him when he thought he was wrong. While they both worked on the NX program, I don't know how often Trip was actually under Jon's authority before the launch. Once he's in the position of answering to and advising his close friend on a daily basis, things would have been really, really different for both of them. I think Trip could have risen to the challenge, but the learning curve was so steep right there at the beginning that I think it was good that T'Pol was there to speak up with her dissenting opinions.