Extensive medical intervention

[bluetiger]

I was lurking at Trek BBS and while I have no desire to get involved in the may-lay, a statement was made that I question.

The person commenting said, "ENT established that Human/Vulcan interbreeding requires extensive genetic intervention."

Now, in what episode did this occur and what was the direct quote? I do not remember this being stated. I wonder if it is based on the common knowledge we all have about cross breeding. I tried to remember all that Phlox said to Trip and can't remember him saying this.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Honeybee]

I think that notion comes from a line in TOS when someone asks Spock about his parentage, and he says it required some help. In Future Tense, there's a line about Humans and Vulcans not mating successfully.

And then in E2, I think there's something about Phlox having to help in Lorian's creation.

However, I think you could work around it. I did in my story Dusk, and everyone seemed to accept it. Conception was possible but medical intervention helped the pregnancy be carried to term.

[bluetiger]

This line from Phlox was all I could find in regard to conception.

PHLOX: According to Lorian, I discovered, or rather I will discover, a method of successfully combining human and Vulcan genomes.

To me that is a bit vague for the kind of assumptions people make. Believe me, I'm not trying to start a fight! I was just curious as to what was Enterprise canon on the subject. So many times people read things in fanfic over and over until they assume it is canon.

I just remembered that several times T'Pol said that Humans and Vulcans have never mated successfully, but I attribute this to High Command BS. Like they would ever own up to it .

[Honeybee]

For all we know, Phlox would have just had to give Trip and T'Pol a hypospray - that's how I did in my E2 stories. So, it didn't qualify as extensive! I think basically writers can do what they like - it's never been dealt with in detail onscreen.

Also, with regards to that argument, it is canon that T'Pol seeks to mate with a male - and she tries to with both a human and a Denobulan in Bounty. So, if Pon Farr is for procreation - at least her body thinks that might be successful!

[bluetiger]

Yes, I'm totally in your corner on that one. Pon Farr, in my opinion, is a drive to procreate. I think they would be drawn to the opposite sex regardless of orientation. Nature finds a way to quote Jurassic Park.

[creek_chub]

I think, too, some people might be taking the conversation Trip and T'Pol have at the end of Terra Prime as indication that cloning would be the only process by which a Vulcan and a Human might have a child. I think, however, this line could be ambiguous, too, especially when coupled with a line earlier where T'Pol tells Trip she's never been pregnant (possibly indicating that an "uh-oh" situation is feasible?)

Also, and I'm not sure how much weight this might carry since it involves a different species, but in Voyager, Torres and Paris seem to accidentally get pregnant. Their dialogue with the doctor came across as very much that their stance was they wanted a family eventually and since Klingon/Human conception is supposedly difficult, they decided to take the tactic of not actively trying but not actively preventing, either. If that was their attitude towards it, it sure doesn't seem like that means they were going to sickbay for any sorts of treatments...just that they were leaving things up to nature. Again, I'm not sure what, if any, conclusion we can draw from this instance, especially considering Torres is half Human and half Klingon, whereas T'Pol is full Vulcan.

[bluetiger]

Thanks, creek_chub. I pulled up the transcript from from Terra Prime.

TUCKER: There's something else. I spoke with Phlox. It turns out there was a flaw in the technique that Paxton's doctors used in the cloning process. Human DNA and Vulcan DNA, Phlox says there's no medical reason why they can't combine. So if a Vulcan and a human ever decided to have a child, it'd probably be okay. And that's sort of comforting.
(T'Pol takes his hand)

Since these two Enterprise quotes are the only canon I can find, I'll go with the help...maybe, but extensive genetic intervention...not so much. But that's just me .

[Aquarius]

There is another "soft canon" source for the difficulty of creating a Vulcan/human hybrid child.

In the early/mid 70s, there was actually an LP record released (for those of you old enough to remember when music was pressed into vinyl and played on a turntable) in which Gene Roddenberry himself has a conversation with the character Sarek.

Yes, you read right. Real Guy Gene interviews Fictional Creation Sarek. (Played by Marc Lenard on the album, no less.)

In this recording, Sarek describes a complicated process in which Spock gestated part-time in Amanda's womb, and part-time in a vat, and he'd be moved back and forth as doctors needed to do things to him or Amanda.

While it did not occur on screen, many take this as canon because Gene himself was the source, and it was publicly released.

[Brandyjane]

Tasha Yar had a child with a Romulan in TNG. The circumstances didn't make it sound like they would have gone for extensive medical intervention to make that happen. Since Romulans came from Vulcan and are pretty close genetically, it only makes sense to me that a human/Vulcan hybrid might sometimes occur naturally, too. It would probably be a rare thing with a lot of instances of miscarriage or medical problems in the mother and child, but maybe - very rarely - a healthy child is born.

I got the impression that Paxton purposely created a baby with flawed DNA. Maybe it would have been easier to create a clone if he'd just let things combine the way they wanted to combine. (Yeah, that makes no sense in real life, but this is one area where I'm willing to suspend my disbelief.)

[EntAllat]

There is another "soft canon" source for the difficulty of creating a Vulcan/human hybrid child.

In the early/mid 70s, there was actually an LP record released (for those of you old enough to remember when music was pressed into vinyl and played on a turntable) in which Gene Roddenberry himself has a conversation with the character Sarek.

Yes, you read right. Real Guy Gene interviews Fictional Creation Sarek. (Played by Marc Lenard on the album, no less.)

In this recording, Sarek describes a complicated process in which Spock gestated part-time in Amanda's womb, and part-time in a vat, and he'd be moved back and forth as doctors needed to do things to him or Amanda.

While it did not occur on screen, many take this as canon because Gene himself was the source, and it was publicly released.

That's just ... fascinating ... if you'll pardon the pun.